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[HKmod]

Here is a dedicated thread to Apple TV / HDfury combo owner.

Many asked us about Apple TV compatibility w/HDfury1 or HDfury2 and some posted support questions about this device.
Please use this thread from now on for any Apple TV questions.

We get our hand on Apple TV last week and ran some tests.

Here is some comments:

Apple TV works fine with HDfury1, Blue LED is ON, RGB output is working well.

Apple TV works with HDfury2 set to RGBHV output BUT BLUE LED stays OFF !! (This was never seen yet)
Apple TV DO NOT work with HDfury2 set to YUV output and BLUE LED stays OFF too !!

Those was very surprising results for us and 2 more Apple TV devices are coming next week for extended investigation from our developpers.

We also tried differents (previous) HDfury2 firmware, we of course tried to update Apple TV FW without success, ran diagnostics and so on ...
Anyway, as we ran into technical details, we find out (as documented by AnandTech) that Apple TV is using Silicon Image HDMI TX labelled Sil1030 which was the very first HDMI TX produced for Intel motherboard in 2005; cost 1.50usd/pc, quiet a cheap one, 100% designed for computer !

We also had strange results with the latest limited EDID where a custom 800x600/60hz resolution appeared in the HDMI resolution option of Apple TV once connected (set to RGBHV), while it doesn't appear when running HDF2 full EDID (set to RGBHV).

There may be a workaround through EDID update which would be easy to implement for end users.
The issue prolly takes place between Computer alike formatted EDID vs HT alike formatted EDID (note sure yet, actually it's just a "feeling" as it could be related to HDMI TX without any solution available from us but rather need an Apple TV FW update)

This seems to be confirmed (partially) by some others issue related to Apple TV, like the one with Samsung display where any Samsung display owners had to enter service mode to turn off some options in order to not have any HDMI lose of picture, you can read about it here : http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20081207011101698

We will be back soon with "hopefully" accurate problem description and solution for HDfury2 users !

Stay tuned !

[HKmod]

QUICK UPDATE: 25/06/09 This is getting HOT now !

Our devs found out and solved the Apple TV issue.
We will shortly publish the how-to and a few technical behind this.
It's HOT cause Apple made a HDMI implementation error on that one. We are not blaming them, we are also doing our own implementation time to time In our case it's to grant compatibility, in appleTV case it causes a reduction of compatibility, as it can be seen on the above google link about samsung displays.
We believe this can help the whole AppleTV community who are having any issue with their HDMI output
Hopefully It could also help Apple to improve their next production or at least help their service center to deal with such HDMI problems

Expect more details in the next hours...

[ecrabb]

Thanks for the update, HKmod!

I'm not surprised Apple used an HDMI transceiver designed for an Intel computer motherboard - I think that's basically exactly what the AppleTV is.

So, is this implementation issue anything that Apple can correct via a software update to the AppleTV, or is it actually a hardware implementation problem.

Thanks for keeping us informed!

SC

[AnalogRocks]

Excellent. I've seen so many people frustrated by this. I hope the fix works well for all.

[HKmod]

There are nineteen pins in an HDMI connector, as seen in the below illustration: (taken from http://www.hdmi.org/installers/insidehdmicable.aspx)

Pins 1 through 9 carry the three TMDS data channels (Transition Minimized Differential Signaling – the technology that allows DVI and HDMI to send high-speed digital data), three pins per channel. TMDS data includes both video and audio information, and each channel has three separate lines for + values, - values, and a ground or data shield.

Pins 10 through 12 carry data for the TMDS clock channel, which helps keep the signals in synchronization. As with the TMDS data channels, there are separate lines for + values, - values, and a data shield.

Pin 13 is carries the CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) channel, used for sending command and control data between connected devices.

Pin 14 is reserved for future use.

Pins 15 and 16 are dedicated to the DDC (Display Data Channel), used for communicating EDID (Extended Display Identification Channel) information between devices.

Pin 17 is a data shield for the CEC and DDC channels.

Pin 18 carries a low-voltage (+5V) power supply.

Pin 19 is the Hot Plug Detect, dedicated to monitoring power up/down and plug/unplug events

[HKmod]

As you can see above, the HDMI rules state that pin14 on HDMI connector must stay NC/unused/reserved.

However on Apple TV, the Pin14 is linked to the GROUND.

While on HDF2 we are using this normally "unused" pin for our in system programming through HDMI connector.

We don't know yet if this is something Apple can solve through firmware update (it depends if they are using some CPLD/FPGA to handle such tracks). At least it's something they can easily update on next production, or can easily modify through repair center.

If Apple TV was not putting this pin14 to GND, HDfury2 would work perfectly out of the box , just like HDfury1 is doing.
If HDfury2 was not using this pin14 for HDMI programming, HDfury2 would work perfectly out of the box, just like HDfury1 is doing.

So at the end there is 2 way to get rid of this issue:
1) Expect/Wait for an Apple update or mod the output yourself (lifting pin14 from Apple TV HDMI connector)
2) Expect HDfury2 update or mod it yourself (cut track that lead to pin 14)

We will of course add SMT switch or solder pads on our next PCB, when Firmware upgrade will be needed, one will have to solder those 2 pads, or change the switch position before programming.

For the time being, and until we came with new PCB revision, there is one DIY solution which consist of cutting the track that leads to pin14 on HDF2 (or on the apple TV board)

See the picture in attachement for the safest location of cutting that track

Please make sure that you clearly understand that THIS FIX is ONLY For Apple TV and HDfury2 to operate in YUV mode (switch on YUV) with YUV extender lead.
The RGBHV output of HDfury2 works perfectly (even if blue led is OFF) So you don't need to do any fix for Apple TV if you are using RGBHV output of HDfury2.

[HKmod]

Next PCB revision will include solder pads at the same location than the one showed on the Apple TV fix picture provided above.

[Dustoff]

Is this the same for a new 2009 MacMini? I am having problems with getting it to display with with HDFury2 DVI-HDMI and using a power supply. It will flash the screen, off-center and weird colors, and then go to all black screen. The blue light is lit...

About to send in for the EDID update and firmware update. Think I am using 1.50...

Dean

[HKmod]

[scgf]

I recently bought an Octava 4 input HDMI switch to use with my non-hdmi plasma panel. I connected the hdmi output of the switch to the HDFury 2 effectively giving me 4 hdmi inputs to component out. It works very well.

Today I had a go at connecting my Apple TV into the switch and was very surprised to find it works! It looks like the switch is not passing through the ground signal on pin 14. Good news indeed.

Thought this information might be useful to someone!

[AnalogRocks]

[scgf]

[AnalogRocks]

I've updated your post with a picture. Thanks again for this.

Jeremy

[HKmod]

Any switch should work.
The fix is only needed if you have a direct connection AND if you are using YUV output.

The fact that pin14 is linked to GND on apple TV, is only a problem if another device is using Pin14, such as HDF2 is doing but also such as any HDMI 1.4 device will do.

[Seesigi6]

So I'm sorry what is that fix?

I just bought the new tiny black apple tv and the HD fury3.

I hooked it up to my old but trusty Sony Wega 36" tv with only yuv in.

So in other words I hook it up as ....apple tv, hdmi cable, hdfury 3 (set at default) blue light on with power, VGA to component into green/blue/red into back of set of a Sony wega 36".

Though all I get is squiggly mosaic on the monitor.

I troubleshooted it and hooked the whole setup to a vga computer monitor, it worked flawless, but when I work it into vga component connector and Sony tv....I get that squiggly mosaic.

What do you recommend?

From,
Sigi


Ps I've used your products on Redcam shoots in the past and your product worked great. [/img]

[AnalogRocks]

Does your TV accept 720p?

[Seesigi6]

I guess my tv is a bit ancient.

But the hdfury3 worked perfectly on my computer VGA screen.


Thankyou for your time.

[AnalogRocks]

[wbessada]

Today I tried hooking my appletv up to my hdfury2 and it worked as expected in RGB mode. I discovered that the other source (sky HD) I want to use the hdfury2 for looks better in YUV mode so I tried the apple tv and it WORKED!!!!

So my set up is appletv (ver1) updated to latest software hdmi into hdfury2 (set to YUV) then VGA into a 1 to 2 splitter/booster and into a hitachi pma400e plasma VGA port set to component mode.

I thought this config wouldn't work without modding either the appletv or the hdfury2 because of the hdmi pin issue. Is it possible apple have changed something in the latest software update?

[sueannlaib]

" Today I had a go at connecting my Apple TV into the switch and was very surprised to find it works! It looks like the switch is not passing through the ground signal on pin 14. Good news indeed. "

Wow, that i cool, thank you for that information. Can't wait to have one and try with my own.

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