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My opinion of the HD Fury2...By Mike Parker
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mp20748



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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: My opinion of the HD Fury2...By Mike Parker Reply with quote

I've had this device in my system for the past 4 days now. My primary reason for acquiring it was to have a basic HDMI device around for test and use with the stuff I worked on. My intent with my setup was a card slot version of an HDMI converter for my Marquee. And by not yet owning the latest HDMI input slot HDMI converter, I was going to use the Fury2 as the device to setup my system. And from there, I would go with the input slot version of the HDMI device.

Already having the Fury2, Initially I was not able to use it because all of my VGA break-out cables had male HD15 connectors, which would require the Fury2 to have a female connector. And I did not have a gender changer, so I borrowed a friends Input slot HDMI converter and used it for awhile to setup and align my setup. With the input slot version of the device, there was something puzzling me about the image, so much so that i drove around looking for a gender changer in hopes of using the fury2 to figure out what i was seeing.

A gender changer was no where to be found, so I removed that stupid male connector and soldered my wires directly to the unit.

Ok, so I blew my warranty, but that's fine. So far, that connector is the only thing I did not like about this device.

First thing I noticed was the build quality. Which is leaps and bounds better than the previous version. And that also applies to the board design which is really nice with thick PC board material. The casing is also heavier and appears to be top notch for something small like this device.

But the main thing about this device that I really like is it's ability to properly resolve 1920x1080P /60hz. I mean it flawlessly passed everything I threw at it. Almost nothing does that well with true 1080P. there always seem to be something that every device lacks in being able to put everything 1080P on the table. This thing does it, and it does it VERY well..:thumbsup:

Not sure why the connector is MALE, when every VGA/HD15 output device that I'm aware of has a FEMALE VGA/HD15 connector for it's output.

All shots are native 1080P into a Marquee 9500LC






















Complete details on the HDfury2: http://www.sitename.com/HDfury2.shtm
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HKmod



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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mike,

Thank you for your comment and your words, it's much appreciated and i'm sure John will be pleased to read that too especially when it's coming from a technical and skilled guy.
Am i right to assume this post and those screenshots are somewhat related to your feedback ? http://www.sitename.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=188645#188645

About the VGA male output, basically the idea came from the very first HDfury unit when AACS was not yet cracked and when we was extremelly concerned by potential lawsuit.
So according to HDMI specs using widely available connector (such as VGA female) is a violation of the ruling.
Also, men in the middle device was a violation.
so we used VGA male in order to have the module connected directly to the display input, so it acts like "ADD-ON" and not "men in the middle"

anyway, since AACS is cracked the pressure on such things(compliance details) seems low now, so may be if a next product comes out, it will be VGA female... who knows Wink ...
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mp20748



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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Fury2 is the second of the two shots. And from there, it's all Fury2.

Two different HDMI converters. The Fury2 is the second one


second HDMI converter:





Always when measuring or going for fully resolved 1080P, it's the lines or pixel patterns that's the main determiner. However, there's several other measures to also determine. the second to the main test is COLORS and range of colors. When a circuit or device clips or roll-offs the high end, it also weakens the color gain on the display, as well as limits the range of colors. Pastels colors seem to almost disappear, and lose punch and vibrance.




.
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mp20748



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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are two more I liked. Notice who well it brings out the really fine stuff (detail/clarity) way in the backgrounds. And note how it does it without muting the colors, and what really shows its power - you can actually experience the depth in the images.








And check this out. The projector has a long ways to go with setup and calibration.

.
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HKmod



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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mp20748 wrote:
Here are two more I liked. Notice who well it brings out the really fine stuff (detail/clarity) way in the backgrounds. And note how it does it without muting the colors, and what really shows its power - you can actually experience the depth in the images.


And check this out. The projector has a long ways to go with setup and calibration.

.


Nice, thanx for sharing those shots !

For our record could please tell us what signal type you are sending from the source (Y/.. or RGB, full or limited ?)
Also the switch position of HDF2 output (RGBHV or YUV ?)

Are you already running latest FW1.51 ? (only important if you send Y/.. from source and output to YUV)
Otherwise 1.50 will do the work the same way.


PS: Betel, please create separate thread. We are trying to keep that one limited to HDF2 "pro" review Wink
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WTS



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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike,

So to give something glowing remarks like that are you going to say what you've compared it to or just say it's the best and leave it at that?
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mp20748



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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
Hi Mike,

So to give something glowing remarks like that are you going to say what you've compared it to or just say it's the best and leave it at that?


No, I'll get back to this later. I wanted to look at a few things, but I ran into a few obstacles that's now out of the way.

So I'll post back with more later sometime this week. But for now, the Fury2 that I have here, is one of the most impressive devices I've seen in a long time... more later!
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HKmod



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mp20748 wrote:
But for now, the Fury2 that I have here, is one of the most impressive devices I've seen in a long time... more later!


Glad we came to same conclusion Wink

For those interrested in more screenshots from Mike can follow his original thread here:
http://www.sitename.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=188645
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bbfarmht



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't sure if I wanted to upgrade to the fury2. Now I know with Mikes approval I will purchase one when funds come available.
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ecrabb



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting you'd say that, Walter. I've been using the old HD Fury for over 18 months now - a year of that with my minty G70. Just a couple of weeks ago, I thought I'd try out a Moome card that was loaned to me by a friend... This is the old Moome - IFB-HD. I guess I was expecting to see a difference... Something. I thought something would really pop. Nope. So far, in the very little A-B testing I've done, I can hardly tell any difference at all. I need to do some more quantitative testing, but it's really difficult because the Fury needs to be on the "limited" RGB setting on the PS3, while the Moome card seems to like the "full" setting. Between that and having to switch both my HDMI output on my prepro AND the projector input... it's tough to really A-B compare.

The lack of significant difference was especially surprising to me as my analog signal chain is kind of a mess.

So, how much difference do you think there really is/should be between the old HD Fury and the old IFB-HD if you have good analog cabling to the projector? I say very little (at least, so far). Unless you have a high-end 9" machine, I'm not sure the value is really there in the Moome card (at nearly double the cost of the HD Fury 2).

SC
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WTS



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI ecrab,

I should have stated the newest Moome card. I have never tryed either of the HDfury units, my point was to get away from having to any vga cable runs which of course are usually not the best quality plus the fact you have more connectors which aren't excatly impedence matched.

Now if someone would like to send me the latest HDFury to test I'd be happy to put it up against my slightly modded Moome card. I know I can tell the difference between the first Moome cards and the latest versions.
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HKmod



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
HI ecrab,

I should have stated the newest Moome card. I have never tryed either of the HDfury units, my point was to get away from having to any vga cable runs which of course are usually not the best quality plus the fact you have more connectors which aren't excatly impedence matched.

Now if someone would like to send me the latest HDFury to test I'd be happy to put it up against my slightly modded Moome card. I know I can tell the difference between the first Moome cards and the latest versions.


Hi there,

When you can it's recommended to connect the device straight, this is what ensure you to have the world smallest analog link which give you the best potential quality possible.
Even when used with extender cable, the analog link is still shorter than any other product. you can take measurements directly on your input card but it would be much more convenient to do it from gerber file.
Impedence match and extender lead for all our products are based on John recommendations so this is something we took in consideration since Day1 and HDF1. Also we don't think anyone 'out here in the wild' have anything close to his experience in that field.

About "ANY" card vs Fury2, the test were done by many users already.
There is a few with cons and pros about both devices, but majority admitted that sharpness and colors are better on HDF2. (see reviews)
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mp20748



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sony Blu Ray / Fury2 / Marquee 9500LC Ultra @ 1920x1080P 60hz
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JohnHWman



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: My opinion of the HD Fury2...By Mike Parker Reply with quote

mp20748 wrote:
First thing I noticed was the build quality. Which is leaps and bounds better than the previous version. And that also applies to the board design which is really nice with thick PC board material [...]But the main thing about this device that I really like is it's ability to properly resolve 1920x1080P /60hz. I mean it flawlessly passed everything I threw at it. Almost nothing does that well with true 1080P. there always seem to be something that every device lacks in being able to put everything 1080P on the table. This thing does it, and it does it VERY well..:thumbsup:
Thanks for you comments Mike,
It's true that I've spent almost 200 hours of my time to layout properly this design on this really tiny PCB area Shocked I took a lot of care to separate noisy digital ICs or DC/DC (top layer) from analog signals (Audio/video on bottom layer). I've also spent a lot of time in designing the components video output reconstruction filters layout to stay as shortest as possible and keep matching the 75 ohms impedance paths to the output connector Wink

Technical stuff is always what makes real visual differences at 1080P Very Happy

John
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WTS



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI John,

I have one of your original DVI/VGA boxes which were for the Barco 808s I believe but never actually got around to ever using it, so much for that cash being well spent. ( do you take trade-ins).

I have no doubt that you spent some good time reworking the layout for the HDFury2, but to say that the 75ohm Z is maintained once it hits the VGA connector is going out on a limb.

I'd love to try the HDFury2 as I already have a modded Moome Full HD mounted on my RGB board in my Zenith 1200 and I think it would make for a good comparison test for my own eyes. But I don't really feel like spending the cash to find out that it is only equal or to give you the benifit of doubt slightly better. OF course I want the best there is for my viewing pleasure. Now if I could get a test unit I would give it a run against my modded Moome unit and pick the best unit. Did you make an add-on gamma circuit?
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username



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
Now if I could get a test unit I would give it a run against my modded Moome unit and pick the best unit.

Unfortunately Walter HKmod gets asked for test units every day from everyone under the sun. They'd be broke if they handed out test units to everyone who asks. They do have a 100% money back guarantee however. Don't like it, you can return it for a full refund. See: www.sitename.com/HDfury2.shtm
Quote:
Did you make an add-on gamma circuit?

The GammaX device. Available separately or as part of the HDfury2 Advanced Kit. See the previous link.

username
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WTS



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks UserName
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mp20748



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
HI John,

I have no doubt that you spent some good time reworking the layout for the HDFury2, but to say that the 75ohm Z is maintained once it hits the VGA connector is going out on a limb.



If you saw the board design you would most likely agree. The VGA connector is in the perfect location to the DAC for short and direct traces to the DAC. It's as if everything was designed around the DAC, in order to maintain the best and most simplistic trace runs to the connector - unlike the PC cards.

Even the reconstruction filters are well located on the board and are right near the DAC. The grounding of the VGA section of the board is also well done.


The low end performance is exceptional. The best I've ever seen from anything without gamma boost.


I soldered my wires to the one I have. They are short (3" to the BNC's), and based on every test I ran that would usually reveal impedance or connector problems, it still test flawless.


I spoke with someone today who's getting a Fury2. I recommended that they have a very short VGA to BNC breakout cable made up. Maybe no longer than 6" worth of cables.



When operating at 1080P, it graws a good amount of current. I have a makeshift supply I'm using to power it for now. One thing I'm sure it'll need for the best from 1080P is a very robust power supply. not sure what the supplied puts out, but will know in a few more days.


I am very pleased with it. the range of colors it produces blows my mind..:thumbsup:
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WTS



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI Mike,

Oh I have no doubt John did a great job of laying out the runs and using the layout techniques required to maintain the Z. All I'm saying is once they are connected to a VGA connector from both sides the Z goes out the window. Now, how much effect it will have on the signal quality is up for debate I agree and I don't want to start any debates on this.

Well it sure sounds like you're totally happy with it's performance, but why no gamma boost for you, surely it would help the low end ire even on your CRT.

John, are the analog opamps(I/V) built into the main IC or do you have external opamps?
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mp20748



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
HI Mike,

Oh I have no doubt John did a great job of laying out the runs and using the layout techniques required to maintain the Z. All I'm saying is once they are connected to a VGA connector from both sides the Z goes out the window. Now, how much effect it will have on the signal quality is up for debate I agree and I don't want to start any debates on this.


The impedance thing would be a problem ONLY if the VGA connector was on one end of a long cable run, with BNC's on the other end. That would cause impedance mismatch. But with a short break out cable, that would put BNC's on both ends of the long cable run. And if the BNC's and cables are of true 75 ohm impedance things should be perfect. This would really be a problem at 1080P, but on my 1080P system, it's flawless............



Quote:
Well it sure sounds like you're totally happy with it's performance, but why no gamma boost for you, surely it would help the low end ire even on your CRT.


I like gamma boost, but I prefer the method that does not peak out the upper end. That means I would need a PC card or scaler/processor. And neither of them I have any intent of having in my chain for now........however, I am open to try out one of these devices once I get my system to that point.
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